It is Frightening How Possible Reform Voters Aren't All Loud Thugs
Yusuf, 47, Birmingham
Work: Economics Tutor & Online Educator
Political History: Labour Party. Yusuf identifies as “once called moderate left. Left of Starmer – who isn’t?”
Personal Anecdote: While attending a talk featuring life coach Tony Robbins, who was demonstrating personal limits, he walked across fiery embers.
Mark, 66, Walsall
Work: Ex- Nurse, then Lecturer, currently Retired
Political History: Voted for various parties – last time Conservative while next time he plans to vote Reform Party
Amuse Bouche: Mark netted twice representing England facing Germany … at his sister's wedding of his sister, who married a German (England was defeated).
Initial Impressions
Mark: Since I had surgery for Parkinson’s, it can be difficult expressing myself. Yusuf speaks well, and very passionate in what he believes. I usually drink but I just had a non-alcoholic drink. I had a sirloin steak, then a pancake with ice-cream.
Yusuf: There's a common stereotype of what you think someone backing Reform – a white T-shirt with a union jack or a loud, overweight man – and that was completely taken away. He was quite friendly. I’ve been 16 years sober, so I had a Diet Coke. And I ordered ribeye steak, which tasted amazing.
Key Debate
Mark: Today's immigration rates are not viable. Many individuals crossing in small boats are genuine and willing to work, though some are not. They might be criminals or extremists.
Yusuf: Imagine their position. People don't leave willingly a country where they are settled and a secure existence. These are individuals who’ve got nothing or everything’s been taken away from them. Small boat arrivals represent a minor portion; most people entering into this country is through legal means.
Mark: There’s an ethical dimension to luring professionals to a wealthy nation, because we’re causing a brain drain elsewhere. A long-standing worry of mine is Britain becoming overcrowded, due to energy demands, water supply, healthcare system, education, housing crisis, and so on. Moreover, certain communities that remain isolated and avoid integrating with other Britons. I believe this is a problem – especially if immigrants are coming from countries where rights or treatment of women are appalling.
Yusuf: I talked about my dad coming here Integrating takes time; they continue their traditions from their homeland. Several countries that Britain colonized, including India, were well developed economically, but resources were extracted and caused decline. It’s not like we came to get our stuff back, but we sought better prospects.
Sharing Plate
Mark: We both felt when people become super affluent, money is never sufficient. I support a wealth tax.
Yusuf: Mark expressed wealth inequality was all Thatcher’s fault and discussed her legacy. He didn’t strike me as a Conservative!
Final Thoughts
Mark: Farage is a skilled speaker, right? I'd trust him on the economy, although austerity measures will anger many so he may need to moderate his approach. I'll vote reluctantly as he seems indifferent to healthcare; moving to private care is disappointing. I spent 26 years in the NHS. However, I won't support Conservatives or Labour; they've failed before.
Yusuf: I said to Mark: reflect on Reform's allies. There are unpleasant individuals, you don't fit that mold, your opinions differ. Farage and his deputy, Richard Tice, are affluent businessmen with little genuine interest in the nation, but are trying to appeal to people’s worst fears and impulses to win power.
Final Reflections
Mark: As a retiree, I don’t get the young person’s perspective as much as I did when I was a lecturer. The dinner was enjoyable.
Yusuf: It actually scares me that those considering Reform are not all tub-thumping union jack-emblazoned thugs. Yet, I left hopeful that if you calmly discuss divisive issues, it's possible to shift attitudes and opinions.
